Exclusive - Setting the record straight with Botler A.I. CEO Ritika Dutt
In an exclusive interview, Ritika Dutt, CEO of Botler AI, counters claims by Antonio Utano and Cameron MacDonald
In light of the allegations from Antonio Utano and Cameron MacDonald during Meeting No. 105 OGGO - Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, we're speaking with Ritika Dutt, a Canadian entrepreneur and the CEO and co-founder of Botler AI, a legal artificial intelligence company. Dutt, recognized for her innovative contributions to law and policy, was the only Canadian named in Forbes' 30 Under 30 2020 list. Born in India and educated at McGill University, Dutt has a background in economics and political science and has dedicated herself to enhancing the accessibility of the legal system through technology
Ritika Dutt, along with her co-founder Amir Morv of Botler, brought significant concerns to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) regarding their experiences and observations. In September 2021, they initially alerted the CBSA to their concerns, followed by a more detailed report in November 2022. The essence of their allegations centered on improper relationships between government officials and private consultants, specifically pointing out issues related to the contracting and implementation processes within the CBSA.
Dan Knight: Rhitka, thank you for your time. Can you comment of the recent allegations made by Antonio Utano and Cameron MacDonald made against you during yesterdays OGGO meeting in regards to CBSA contracts in exchange for information? (Meeting No. 105 OGGO - Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates)
Ritika Dutt : These allegations are completely and utterly false. Botler has never asked for contracts or any other benefits in exchange for information with respect to misconduct. Since 2021, Botler has repeatedly reported our findings and experiences to the CBSA and other relevant bodies. We have been fully cooperating with all ongoing investigations, and will continue to do so, all outside of any contractual framework with the CBSA.
Dan Knight: [Yesterday], Cameron MacDonald raised allegations suggesting you had insider connections and were engaged in dealings with other departments within the Government of Canada before the feasibility study began. Specifically, MacDonald mentioned, 'Through an ATIP, we found an email from Ritika Dutt to President Owasaski dated March 8th, 2020, which indicated other dealings were happening, potentially involving partnering on a different project.' Could you clarify if these 'other dealings' he referred to were related to your work with the Justice Department?
Ritika Dutt : Botlers project with the (department of justice) DOJ is public knowledge. It provides free assistance to individuals who have faced to individuals who have faced sexual misconduct at work. There are no charges and there’s no monetization there.
Dan Knight: How did you get the DoJ contract?
Ritika Dutt : We applied via a competitive RFP and won.
And if you check Botlers website, it explains how the project works and how you can access the AI
Dan Knight: And this project through the DoJ gave you knowledge of procurement and it processes?
Ritika Dutt : No. The project with the DoJ was a competitive [Request for Proposal] RFP which resulted in a grant. That means that we only get paid for the actual project expenditures that are incurred, which they verify. There are no revenues or profits.
Dan Knight: So help me understand why you were seeking a contract with the CBSA?
Ritika Dutt : When Firth contacted us on behalf of the CBSA, it was really confusing for us because it was a totally different procurement process. We were familiar with the DoJ process, where they had directly shared the RFP with us and we’d applied. We didn’t have any experience with middlemen.
Dan Knight: Considering your previous experience with the Department of Justice where there was direct interaction without intermediaries, did your subsequent dealings involving Kristian Firth and GC Strategies raise any red flags for you? Did something feel 'off' compared to your earlier, more straightforward engagements?
Ritika Dutt : We always felt something was shady with Firth and the CBSA, but we didn’t know enough about the procurement process at the beginning. Over time, we had to learn how things worked and the rules, to validate that processes weren’t being respected.
Dan Knight: Fair
Ritika Dutt : We were told that GCStrategies had the correct contracting vehicle to work with the CBSA and we would have to go through him and be a subcontractor. Which we were ok with. Then we find out that Coradix and Dalian had executed a contract with the CBSA, brought in GCS as their subcontractor and amir and I had personally been named as consultants to GCS with no mention of our company. This arrangement was executed without our knowledge or consent and we were very uncomfortable with it.
At that point, we were working directly with the CBSA and thought we could talk with them directly about the weird things going on. But we still didn’t have full visibility on the actual contract. Then, the CBSA told amir there were issues with the contract a month before we submitted the September 2021 misconduct report.
Dan Knight: This is why you sought a contract directly with the CBSA?
Ritika Dutt : Yes. But we didn’t actually tell them we wanted a direct contract. In the September report, I explicitly told Utano that we want to enter into a “clean” contract and don’t mind working with other CBSA contractors
Dan Knight: And at no point were you looking to extort CBSA?
Ritika Dutt : NO!!!
Dan Knight: Did the CBSA respond to your request for a new contract?
Ritika Dutt : [The] CBSA responded to me the day after the report saying that a new contract was an option. And just to be clear, we did want a contract. We were essentially working for free without any legal framework. And we wanted to do it properly and in a clean manner. I don’t think there’s any shame or “extortion” in trying to make sure legal documents are properly executed.
Dan Knight: MacDonald made mention that you had spoke to Marc Miller and that you had access to his chief of staff? Would you like to correct the record on that?
Ritika Dutt : Well that goes back to the Newcomer Rise Up interview.
https://newcanadians.tv/newcomerriseup-with-ritika-dutt-episode-10/
I had waved at his constituency chief of staff on the episode. It was about immigration and it’s no secret that I had some trouble with my PR application and had lost my immigration status. At the time, I had been told to get help from my MP, Marc Miller. I reached out to his office and his constituency chief of staff had helped me follow up to see my immigration application status. The talk show was about immigrants and how we settled in Canada, so I had brought it up and given a shout out to her as a thank you. Nothing more than that. I met MP Miller one time, virtually, in the press conference for the DoJ project announcement and that was it. They hold press conferences to announce all funded projects, so it was nothing special.
Dan Knight: There was mention by MacDonald of you participating in a video with the Prime Minster, can you provide context?
Ritika Dutt : [This was in regards to] a Google conference on AI called Go North in 2017, which highlighted the AI talent and advancements in Canada. Amir had been asked to speak by Google. Google had also made a promo video (in the link) which other parties had participated in, including Trudeau, though the other participants were not known to anyone until the video was premiered at the conference. It was a really big event and there were so many other speakers, including Eric Schmidt.
https://events.withgoogle.com/gonorth2017/
Dan Knight: This is the swamp clutching at straws?
Ritika Dutt : I don’t see them accusing Amir of having shady relationships with the CEO of Google
Dan Knight: [Laughs] Last question - Do you believe that the slow and opaque process of responding to ATIP requests, as highlighted by the Attorney General, contributed to the challenges surrounding the ArriveCan project? Additionally, do you think artificial intelligence (AI) could play a role in improving the efficiency and transparency of ATIP processes in the future?
Ritika Dutt : There’s definitely room for improvement in the way that ATIPs are responded to, and it absolutely possible that AI can play a role in streamline searches for relevant records. What I’m not sure about is the privacy considerations of plugging AI into a general record search, that would require a proper deep dive assessment.
Dan Knight: Thank you so much for your time Ritika, I like to leave my readers with some final thoughts. I’d like to leave this to you.
Ritika Dutt : There’s actual change taking place in the government and this machine is actually bending, which is huge! We can’t forget all the good that has come out of this.
Dan Knight: You're an inspiration. So on behalf of Canadians thank you for your bravery